Mark Santiago On How Men Can Overcome Divorce To Become An Empowered Leader

In this conversation, Rob Pene and Mark Santiago explore the transformative journey of men dealing with personal crises, particularly around relationships and self-identity. Mark shares insights from his Empowered Man program, emphasizing the importance of ownership, emotional intelligence, and the journey from victimhood to empowerment. They discuss the significance of personal growth, the challenges of navigating infidelity, and the necessity of understanding one's identity as a son before becoming a man. 

The conversation highlights the journey of healing and the potential for new, healthy relationships after personal transformation. In this conversation, Mark shares his journey of breaking free from toxic relationship patterns and embracing a healthier, more peaceful life. He discusses the importance of self-awareness in attracting the right partners and the challenges he faced during personal crises. Mark emphasizes the significance of taking ownership of one's journey and the role of community in men's empowerment. He also highlights the mission of Empowered Man, a platform dedicated to helping men heal and grow through practical tools and support.

Takeaways

✅ The last 12 months have been a journey of pruning.

✅ Pruning is essential for personal growth.

✅ Ownership is key to transformation.

✅ Men often feel guilty but need to take ownership.

✅ Healing involves uncovering the true self.

✅ Men need to articulate their emotions.

✅ Many men live quiet lives of desperation.

✅ You can't be a man until you become a son first.

✅ Successful relationships come from personal growth.

✅ God can use anyone for His purpose. Cycle through the same woman with a different face.

✅ Take ownership of what attracted toxic partners.

✅ Healthy relationships feel different and peaceful.

✅ Many are scared of peace and functionality.

✅ False narratives can cloud our reality.

✅ Navigating personal crises reveals our true selves.

✅ Taking back ownership is crucial for growth.

✅ Empowered Man helps men heal from trauma.

✅ Creating community support is essential for men.

✅ There's a significant need for men's empowerment.

Sound Bites

"Everything is my responsibility."

"You have to own your shit."

"Men live quiet lives of desperation."

"God could use anybody or anything."

"They didn't attract the same person."

"It's the same toxic traits."

"I needed to take back my kingdom."

Connect with Mark Santiago

• http://empoweredman.co
• https://www.youtube.com/@empoweredman

Episode Sponsor

Linkedin Ghostwriting & Profile Management service https://thedigitalwritingfirm.com

Transcript

What is up? What is up everybody? Nice to meet you. This is the behind the scenes stories of busy professionals. Rob here with Mark Santiago. Before we get started, this episode is brought to you by Get Ghosted, a LinkedIn ghost writing and profile management service. Sometimes people are on Instagram and Facebook because it's more appealing. LinkedIn is boring, but a lot of business on LinkedIn. So if you're not on LinkedIn, you're missing out.

go to thedigitalwritingfirm.com if you're interested in getting your Champion Method profile edit. It's free, but you get to optimize a profile with information that gets over to you. With that being said, this dude, Mark is a cool dude, We met in a mastermind kind of coaching program not too long ago. And I remember when he changed from what he was doing then into what he's doing now, which is also my heart, because I was just telling.

Mark that last year I couldn't eat, sleep, couldn't walk, couldn't talk. It was nuts. And I think it was spiritually induced. I believe that the Lord works miracles. And part of my responsibility in response to God was to use my voice, but then also to start mentoring and disciple men, which is what Mark does. And I wanted to bring him on to shed some light on

why that's so important, but then also what he's doing differently that, gets the transformation. Cause I've seen some testimonies of people's lives getting changed and relationships getting repaired and all these miracles and all that stuff. So we got to get this guy on to get us started though, is our signature question, our ignition, our ignition question, which is broke in the last 12 months of your life, if you were to assess that and then turn that into a Netflix special.

What would that movie be called and why? The last 12 months.

Mark (02:01.218)

Gosh, I feel like this was a question I should have had like eight weeks ago so I could have like thought about it prepared. I don't even know what I would call it because the last 12 months have been absolutely insane with the amount of internal growth as well as external pruning. I guess you could say pruning would be the best way to put it where God takes away all the dead branches so that you could grow healthy. And there was a lot of cutting, a lot of pruning to me personally, my ego.

Rob Pene (02:06.465)

Yeah.

Rob Pene (02:14.638)

Mmm.

Rob Pene (02:21.634)

Yeah.

Mark (02:31.182)

who I am to my team, all the things. So I'll just say pruning. That's the word. Yeah.

Rob Pene (02:31.278)

Hmm?

Rob Pene (02:36.322)

Wow. Okay, okay, good. And sounds like it happened personally and professionally or was one more than the other.

Mark (02:42.852)

I would say they were connected very much so because of the person I was becoming due to success was not the best version of me meaning that I was showing up in ways that I didn't like and wanted to not go that route and there was a lot of ego that needed to die and God knows how to bring those things to fruition and you can either go kicking and screaming or you can go fully into his will and you know

Go with what he has for you. So I was like, you know what? I'd rather go your way because you know better than I do. Here we are.

Rob Pene (03:17.666)

You know, that's really interesting. That's really interesting because you're doing God's work, right? What you're doing with empowered men is you're helping to essentially disciple them. so there's growth and healing, right? But you still found yourself tangled up with some ego while still doing God's work.

Mark (03:39.32)

yeah, I mean, I don't know how you could, I guess, escape it in that sense, you know. It's kind of like, you know, the Pharisees, right? It's like they were doing God's work, but they became full of pride, full of ego in everything they were doing. So yeah, that's the way I look at it.

Rob Pene (03:40.376)

Wow.

Rob Pene (03:46.382)

in

Rob Pene (03:53.334)

Okay, can you tell us a little bit more about the Empowered Man program and what you actually do with them?

Mark (04:00.548)

Yeah, so in a nutshell, men come to me in various stages of going through a separation divorce. And so as they're going through this, you know, it's usually like I want to save my marriage or my marriage is probably over and I want to do some sort of personal work. So we kind of walk them through these stages of separation divorce. A lot of times it's creating a marriage, but most of the time it's not. Most of the time the marriage is over. lot of infidelity, about 75 % of my clients have been cheated on.

or being actively cheated on by their wives. And so what I decided to do is instead of just go to the market and say, how do we manipulate women to come back in the marriage? said, how do we make men so valuable that their wives want to come back to them? And so that's my whole focus is helping you not change who you are, but heal who you've become. And the only way we can do that is by accessing the depths of who you are as a man to uncover those, not just wounds, right? We're not therapists, we're coaches, but uncover

Rob Pene (04:42.67)

Mmm.

Mark (04:58.53)

the little boy inside, help him raise up to the man he's supposed to be. Not in a toxic way, not in a beating my chest kind of way, but just literally taking ownership. Ownership over the things I can control. So everything is my, not fault, but everything is my responsibility. Because fault is shame, responsibility is leadership.

Rob Pene (05:17.71)

We're not even five minutes in dude, and you're dropping some like yeah haymakers man. wow so fault is shame and What was the other one something?

Mark (05:28.708)

So fault is shame and responsibility is leadership. So meaning that a lot of men think that it's my fault and so no, it's not your fault, it's your responsibility, right? You didn't cause your wife to cheat on you. didn't make her spread her legs and screw some other guy. You just showed up in a way though that made her feel unsafe. And there was things in your marriage that you can work on. The cheating isn't your fault. It's still your responsibility to do something about it for your family, for yourself, for your future. So I go, if I can recreate men from the ground up and then

Rob Pene (05:34.275)

Yes.

Mark (05:57.924)

they either save their marriage or what I call recreate a new marriage or they move on and become healthy versions themselves. Great. That's what I did. I went through a very toxic, nasty divorce. I was married for 17 years, had four kids and was able to recreate my life through healing, through transformation, through, you know, multiple coaches, multiple counselors, multiple therapists, et cetera. It came to this place of, you know, being married to a new person. So I've been married now for almost four years to my wife Amy. We have seven kids combined. We run a multimillion dollar company.

We do all these things, volunteer, know, all this stuff and it's like, how did I get from there to brokenness with a 500 credit score and no money in the bank to being super successful, all that, it's this journey of ownership. It's this path of saying, I am responsible for everything. Everything that's good or bad is my responsibility. And so that's what we teach our guys. That's like the very foundation of what we do.

Rob Pene (06:30.466)

Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Pene (06:49.07)

That must be tough to take them from victimhood, And depression and anxiety to a posture of like power. know, there's a lot. How long is that process typically on average? How long have you seen people go from like, oh, it's always me to let's take on the world?

Mark (07:06.756)

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times they won't even start working with me until they've decided to own their shit, is what I call it. I don't know if I'm a lot of cuss in here, but like, that's what I call it, is owning your shit. Because a lot of times if they come to me as a victim, I'm gonna smack them in the face real quick and remind them that they're not a victim, they're a victor if they choose to be. And it's all that self-induced shame, feel sorry for me, what it is, I'm not gonna feel sorry for anybody. I've been through everything you could possibly be through, I'm not gonna feel sorry for you. And so my job, my goal is,

Rob Pene (07:24.696)

Huh.

Mark (07:34.796)

I'll empathize with you and I'll understand the pain that you're in because I've been there, but I'm not going to feel sorry for you. And so you have to make a decision. Do I want to be a 10 year old boy with no hair on his nuts or do I want to grow into the man that I'm supposed to become? And I have to decide if I'm going to become that. And if I'm not going to become that, I'm not sure guy go, go. There's 15 other groups out there. There's a hundred other groups out there will tell you how to save your marriage by manipulating your life. I'm not that guy for you.

Rob Pene (07:56.706)

Wow, so how do these guys find you and then realize that they need to work a little bit more and then come, like, how do they end up finding you?

Mark (08:02.882)

Yeah, I combination of things. Obviously I do a lot of Facebook advertising. and then I've got a podcast and YouTube and I would say the bulk of the work is done like on the YouTube videos where guys will, they'll start listening to my YouTube. They'll start digesting. I've got hundreds and hundreds of videos on there. think over a thousand total and they'll, they'll listen to the content and they'll go, this either makes sense or I hate this guy. and that's on purpose because I don't want people kind of liking me. want them to going, I'm all in on his message or no, I can't stand this guy. that's just.

what I decided to do.

Rob Pene (08:34.05)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it. And how long did it take for you and your process to get to a point where you felt kind of built back together and healed and ready to move on?

Mark (08:47.438)

So I would say about a year total, but probably about six months into that, I had some massive, massive growth moments. There was also a journey because like, I had gone through so much in my marriage where my first marriage where, you know, there was a lot of infidelity. There was a lot of stuff that had happened over years and multiple times of reconciliation that by the time I got to the end, it was kind of like dying a slow death. And it was like,

Rob Pene (09:13.966)

Mmm.

Mark (09:15.054)

So I processed and grieved while we were still like living separated. And it started because she told me I needed to go to counseling. And so I did. I started talking to coaches and therapists and I started recognizing the bigger picture of her own, I'll just call it what it is, mental disorders that she had and didn't understand the dynamics that we had, didn't understand manipulation, didn't understand boundaries, didn't understand any of those power dynamics. And so I was living under this for years, decades almost, and didn't understand it. And so once I started...

Rob Pene (09:18.904)

Man.

Mark (09:43.214)

taking back my power and saying, no, I'm gonna set a boundary here. This is not okay. I can love you, but I'm not gonna do what you asked me to do. In this case situation, that's when things started to fall apart from a relationship standpoint. And I recognize that I can unconditionally love somebody, but I don't have to let them into my life. I can love them from afar. And that's what I chose to do. Because for so long, especially in faith, you it's like, you forgive, you forgive, you forgive. And I think you can forgive, but at the same time, I think you can say, hey, but you don't get a place in my life.

you've lost that opportunity.

Rob Pene (10:16.013)

Dude, there's so much power in your positioning and the words that you say and that rationale. Like, I can only imagine how the men feel when they're making that transition. You know what I mean?

Mark (10:31.374)

For some of them, get pretty either scared, triggered, or they run. It can be very interesting. Because as you can see, I'm not trying to beat anybody up with this message, but it definitely can be very confronting. And it confronts our reality. But it's the truth I live every day. When I wake up every day, I'm living what I call this five-dimensional life as a man, which is my internal world, my external world. So me as a man, me as a lover, me as a father, me as a leader, me as a producer, that's the five-dimensional man.

Rob Pene (10:33.496)

Yeah.

Mark (11:01.42)

And so that's what we help men build back up into is five dimensional men who aren't just living as producers making killing in the world, but they're actually killing everything in a sense that they're not just great providers financially, but they're great emotional providers. They're great fathers, they're great leaders in their home and their community. They're great leaders internally. They pay attention to their emotions. Most men have no idea how to process emotions and what they're actually feeling. And so that's what we help them do is get to articulate that.

That's where I think the disconnect and the desperation in men. I can't remember who said this, that most men lives quiet lives of desperation. And that always stuck with me. John Eldridge wrote about that in a book called Wild at Heart, but he quoted somebody. I always forget who actually said it. I should get the quote and figure it out. But that quiet lives of desperation is so many men because we live disconnected lives. Men don't know how to articulate what we feel, so we feel disconnected. And when we feel disconnected, we are isolated and alone. That creates depression.

And that depression then just continues to just cycle and cycle and cycle. So then when we're with our wives, we don't know what to do. We don't know what to say. We don't know how to communicate. We think she's looking for this big strong guy instead of just being vulnerable and saying, I feel scared right now that we're not paying our bills. I feel scared right now that I'm not able to perform sexually. I feel scared right now that these things are happening. These very vulnerable, intimate moments. And your wife is craving that, but you don't know how to give that to her. And so over time, the wife disconnects. She finds somebody else. Whatever happens.

and your left guy going, I was a good husband, I never cheated, I took her out on dates, I said I love you, I took her on vacations, but she still don't wanna be with me. It's like, yeah, but dude, she never knew you. Same thing with Jesus. Same thing, he says, I don't know you, get away from me.

Rob Pene (12:46.176)

Wow, wow. Yeah, that's pretty heavy. Now, I know you mentioned that the majority of the guys that you work with have been cheated on. Is there a flip side where you work with guys that have been the infidelater and is trying to regain their healing and all that stuff?

Mark (12:56.376)

Yeah, good portion.

Mark (13:06.916)

Occasionally, yes. Most of them know and the reason why is because most of them are trying to manipulate their wife back. They don't want to take ownership over what they did. And so essentially they're going at it from a how do I fix her? How do I fix the situation? Not how do I heal from what I did first, then going back? And it's the same thing I teach guys. I have this whole continuum. I call it coming back to the marriage. And it's like if your wife has had an affair, there's a certain like process that she needs to go through before you can actually reconcile.

And if she hasn't done that process, if she's skipping those steps, there's no way that you can actually reconcile. Same thing for men. There has to be that process in order for you guys to have a full, transparent relationship again.

Rob Pene (13:45.336)

So it sounds like ownership is a big deal. Like that's prerequisite.

Mark (13:48.982)

Number one. Yeah, I've never I don't think I've ever signed up a guy that stayed in our program that didn't take ownership. It just won't happen.

Rob Pene (13:55.182)

Yeah, that's huge.

Mark (14:00.866)

I have this saying where I go, you know, a lot of guys come to me who feel guilty about the things that have happened. And there's something that has to happen where there's a conviction to make transformation, right? Where they become convicted within themselves to make an effort to make change, to make transformation. But there's a bridge between guilt and conviction. It's called ownership. Ownership is the bridge from guilt to conviction. You can come all day and feel bad and feel shame and feel all these things about how bad you were or a bad life is.

Rob Pene (14:05.1)

Yeah.

Mark (14:30.008)

But if you have zero ownership, you'll never be convicted to actually make changes and to do the things you're supposed to do.

Rob Pene (14:36.248)

Dude, that's massive. And it sounds like right now, just in the landscape of Christian leadership, we've got some pretty significant men, pastors, leaders that have fallen publicly, but are now making their comeback, taking ownership and then jumping back on platforms to tell their story. If you were to give advice to the young men that are just as capable, just as charismatic as these guys that are super famous and all that stuff,

what would you tell them in terms of learn from those guys? And they're willing to put themselves out so that we can learn, right? What would your counsel be to those guys?

Mark (15:18.434)

One of the things we talk about, you know, I just, the five dimensional man, right? And the key thing is this is I kind of have this drawing I do, I could always send you the diagram, but it's kind of like this is that most men focus on being a producer before everything, which is what can I produce in this world? Being a producer makes me feel like a man. If I'm not making a hundred grand, if I'm not doing these things while I pay the bills, I don't feel like a man. Totally makes sense from a, just the way we're wired, right? And so we attack everything through that lens of what do I do? Same thing with ministry.

Rob Pene (15:31.404)

Yeah.

Mark (15:46.212)

all these pastors, like they find their identity and what they do and who they are from that perspective. And then what happens is then your wife, then your kids, then everything else, then you at the end. You are the last thing. And then when men go through all of this, they switch it around and the wife becomes the first thing, the primary thing. And they're like begging and pleading and like hoping she'll change it. And they'll stop everything they're doing. They don't hang out with their buddies anymore. They don't look at porn. They don't do anything other than focus on her. And then...

well, maybe your kids, and then after that, maybe your job, and then again, you are the last thing. And so I have this whole thing is like, we have to invert the whole script so that you are primary in the middle. So you are in the middle, you as a man, because if I can get you to look in the mirror and understand who you are internally and not run from it, but actually just like James even talks about, you look in the mirror, but you forget who you are, right? If I can get you to look in that mirror and actually know who you are identity-wise, everything else flows from there.

Rob Pene (16:23.342)

Hmm.

Rob Pene (16:41.357)

Mm-hmm.

Mark (16:43.32)

And so what I would say to these guys is they need to look in the mirror every freaking day and they need to understand who they are because here's the thing is you can't be a man until you become a son first. You have to be a son before you can be a man. And most men are trying to be men who've never been sons. They don't know how to be sons of the father. They don't have any sons to the father. And because of that, they have this massive father when they walk around in trying to prove themselves in ministry. I did it for a long time. Tried to find this identity in ministry of I'm somebody special. I'm somebody famous. And at the end of the day, God don't care about none of that.

Rob Pene (16:57.634)

Wow.

Mark (17:12.348)

because he could take anybody. could take a donkey and preach it from a mountain top. He doesn't need you. You're just as good as a donkey to him. Think about that, right? It's like, dude, you're not that special. God could use anybody or anything. He could use some broken, know, crippled kid in India. He could use some, you know, overweight person. He could use whoever he wants. He chose you. He gave you a grace to speak the gospel. He gave you a grace to be charismatic, to do all those things, but none of that matters until you've learned how to become a son first.

Rob Pene (17:37.486)

Son first. Dude, that's crazy. And then part of your program is to help them be in a position. Uh-oh, what is this? Okay, turn that thing off. need to turn this. Is to put them in a position for a new relationship, right? If that's part of...

Mark (17:58.884)

If that's part of it, yeah. mean, some guys, a lot of guys obviously want that. They don't want to just get divorced and go crawl up in a bottle. They want to eventually get remarried. And so, yeah, I would say a good portion of my guys, I have guys that been with me now for four years as clients. And they started out in this one journey and they've grown and grown and grown for years and years, have moved past the divorce, are getting remarried. Some get remarried a year, whatever it is. And it's really cool to see those guys with successful second marriages.

Rob Pene (18:04.972)

Yes. Yeah.

Mark (18:28.824)

I probably don't even talk about that enough, but it's so cool to see them be happy again and all those things. And the same for myself. I married an incredible woman who I almost didn't want to marry because she was so healthy that I was like, you make me sick because you're so functional and not toxic. I didn't have any of the push pull with her. Tried to break it off with her and she fought for me. And I was like, you know what, let's do this. So.

I've been very fortunate, very blessed man. Like I don't deserve anything that I have other than what God gives me and the grace that he's given me. And I just try to be a good steward of that.

Rob Pene (19:02.86)

Yeah, is there a common thread that you see in those guys that have kind of resurfaced and started new relationships? Is there like one thing that you can see as a pattern across all of them?

Mark (19:15.106)

They didn't attract the same person.

Rob Pene (19:17.42)

Cool.

Mark (19:18.594)

Because what a lot of times guys do is cycle through the same woman with a different face and a different body, but it's the same person. It's the same toxic traits. It's the same push pull behaviors, especially with the ones who marry like, like I did, you know, I married someone toxic who had a personality disorder, cheating, all that stuff. And so you find yourself doing that. And a lot of that, man, I can get into the psychological things about mother wounds and father wounds and all that stuff. But realistically, it's like, we just create these cycles and patterns in ourselves and we just keep attracting the same person.

So one of the very first questions I asked them is like, what inside of you attracted this woman in the first place? That's how you can take ownership. You can't take ownership for her affair, but you can take ownership for the fact that you attracted this person into your life. I had to do that. I had to look hard at what in me attracted him. I was the white knight. I was the savior. I was gonna be basically like dad to her because that filled an ego inside of me that made me feel important. It made me feel a certain way because I had to protect her. I had to do all those things. And it's just all psychologically. I don't wanna get too much into the psychology of it.

Rob Pene (20:08.067)

you

Mark (20:16.344)

But in doing so, it created these narratives, it created this life that I was this person, it was all ego, and it wasn't reality, it wasn't a relationship that was healthy at all. It was very much a relationship of I'm above you, but at the same time she was above me, and it was this toxic, toxic, toxic stuff.

Rob Pene (20:34.552)

So was it kind of like a shock to meet somebody that's completely different, but like you said, super healthy? it almost like a culture shock? Kind of.

Mark (20:44.312)

yeah, it was super weird because basically I still remember when were dating, it was like, I was attracted to her, but it wasn't like the lustful type of attraction. And it was so strange for me. I didn't have the puppy dog love, know, the infatuation type stuff. And I'm like, what is this? I just really liked being in her presence and she was beautiful. You know, it was like all that, but it was like so different. And I just remember kind of God saying to me like,

Dude, if you just give me time, we'll work through all of those things, but this is healthy. Like this is what it should look like. And her and I even remember, I just remember going, it's so easy to be with you. But I had prayed a year before, said, God, I just want peace in my life. And he's like, here, I'm dropping peace right in front of you. This is it. This is the person. This is peace. And I'm like, this is what it feels like. It's amazing, but I'm scared of it. I think so many of us are scared of peace. We're scared of healthy. We're scared of functionality, because we're so used to push pull. We're so used, especially entrepreneurs.

Rob Pene (21:20.268)

Yeah

Rob Pene (21:24.998)

Rob Pene (21:30.257)

EW.

Rob Pene (21:35.212)

Yeah.

Mark (21:43.672)

We're so used to having to prove ourselves. We're so used to all the, the, the conflict and all of those things, because that's what makes us good at what we do. But then we're doing it from a place of weakness, not from a place of strength. And so I'm like, I'm going to switch this thing instead of doing it from a place of need. I'm going to do it from a place of grace and a place of strength. And that's where the pruning has come from in the last year where I was trying to prove so badly that I deserve here. I deserve these accolades. I deserve to refer to be known and all of this stuff. And I'm like, I'm going to go.

Rob Pene (21:53.527)

No.

Mark (22:11.97)

not hide, but I'm basically going go in my cave. And I've been in David's cave for the last year, working on things, fixing things, changing things. And I think we're ready to come out of that cave.

Rob Pene (22:21.282)

Yeah, how did you handle that? Because before you're kind of out there, you were speaking, you're very public and like people noticed you and you're very effective, not only in the business, but also in church. And then when that happened, you divorced and all that, that obviously was hurtful. How did you deal with that transition from being all over the place and then this really big issue that you got to come out of and then try to piece things together and then kind of meet somebody and start.

know, posting and sharing that information again.

Mark (22:53.892)

Yeah, I think it's hard to say exactly, but like, I feel like I had created a lot of false narratives for myself and that was the projection I was putting out into the world. And a lot of it, didn't know it wasn't, it wasn't like purposeful at all. It was just like, kind of like when you see a child playing in a sandbox and they're pretending they're president of the United States. Like that's the world I was living in. And, you know, and God thought it was cute. And then my world came crumbling down.

Rob Pene (23:01.774)

We'll talk.

Mark (23:21.79)

And you realize what you're made of in those moments in those times and I had to go through my season of being mad at God I had to go through my season of I never disbelieved God But I definitely had to go through the season of like hmm, you know This was supposed to be the person you brought me this was supposed to be all just all that stuff and I was like I'm gonna live my life if you want to be a part of it create if you don't whatever and that was that was my attitude because I was hurt I was jaded it took a couple years to come back to that and he's graceful man. He's merciful

Rob Pene (23:26.978)

Yep.

Rob Pene (23:35.778)

Yeah.

Mark (23:51.246)

to still have his hand on me and still give me platform to give me what he does. And I just try to keep a contrived heart about it.

Rob Pene (24:01.868)

Man, and how long have you been remarried now? Four years?

Mark (24:04.93)

Almost four years, almost four years. Yeah, this October. Yeah.

Rob Pene (24:07.554)

Yeah, and how long have you known, like, how long did you know her before you guys got married?

Mark (24:12.9)

almost two years, about a year and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Decent amount of time.

Rob Pene (24:15.754)

Okay. Okay. It's not bad. Yeah. Good job, dude.

Mark (24:20.932)

Yeah, it was just one of those things where we both had moved on from our marriages and we both had made decisions about the life we wanted to live. I think it's different too when you're older. I we were both, was in my forties and you know, I already had four kids. I wasn't trying to find someone to have more kids with or any of that stuff. And we just worked so well. It was just like, even though on paper, our personality types are so different, but because we had both had matured and we both knew what we wanted, like our values were aligned and they still are aligned. And because of that, it's like we,

We work so symbiotic, it's incredible.

Rob Pene (24:54.648)

Did you ever think that you'd be able to be in this position again?

Mark (25:00.304)

I mean, to be honest, like where I'm at now is, is, is way beyond anything I've ever done ever in my life. Entrepreneurially platform wise. I was, I was living a scared dream bubble for so many years. when I had my last company, you know, I did the marketing thing and, know, it was a marketing agency and all that stuff. And I was never, I just, I kept hidden, even though was like out there. And even with this, like I have definitely.

I'm one of those people that's like, like speaking, I like doing those things, but I've always been self-deprecating and always been like, there's somebody else better than me, et cetera. And it's still taking me years to get to this point of going. And even in my business, I'll share a quick tidbit is like, I had basically taken half of my business and gave it to somebody and said, okay, you'd the director of this business. And I'll just worry about this part. You just worry about that part. Thinking I was just, you know, delegating. And what I was really doing was hiding from.

the requirement of me, hiding from what I didn't think I was actually able to do and almost living this sort of fantasy of like, well, people are coming to me because of my voice and all this stuff, but you guys get the results. I'll just kind of hide back here. And it was like, no, that's not how it works. And that's not really what was going on. And for years it worked that way and it was successful, but ultimately I had to cut that off and recognize that I was, needed to take back my kingdom. I needed to take back my company.

Rob Pene (26:03.576)

Hmm

Mark (26:26.914)

And that was the part of the pruning process that began and started to uncover sort of some of the evil in a sense that was happening that was not okay. And when I did that, I was like, my own message, I take full responsibility. take complete ownership of where we are today and where we will be tomorrow. And it's been an incredible journey and incredible process. My faith is like way up here now compared to where it was. Cause there was a point where I was like, why am I even doing this? Maybe I should shut the doors. And God was like, dude, what, what? No.

We're not doing that. And I'm like, okay, you're right. We're not doing that. That was dumb. I'm just being selfish right now and feeling sorry for myself. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get your ass up and let's go. Okay. You said you want to be healed, right? Get up. Let's go. Right? Just like you said to the guy in Matthew, do you want to be made well? Get up, take your mat and let's go. So that's the way Jesus talks to me sometimes. I'm like, all right, I got you. Let's do this. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Rob Pene (27:01.688)

Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Pene (27:09.773)

Yeah.

Rob Pene (27:14.976)

Yeah. And your wife has been instrumental in the growth too, in the business and you guys tagged him on it.

Mark (27:23.63)

huge. mean, she plays, she, I call her my personal life coach, because she like really plays this, this intricate part of knowing how my brain works and like calling me out on my stuff. And just literally like, Hey, you you said this, but you're doing this or whatever. So it's like, okay, I see that you're right, you know, or what are you, what are you talking about? This is your company. Like you're in charge. Like what, do you, you know,

Rob Pene (27:30.445)

Yes.

Mark (27:51.96)

So was a lot of those types of things that she's been instrumental. She definitely helps behind the scenes in a lot of things, like all of our events she goes to and she does a Q &A session with me and the live events that we do. And the guys absolutely love her perspective. She knows how to kick them in the balls and tell them the way it is, so.

Rob Pene (28:08.499)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So do you host live events every quarter?

Mark (28:15.876)

Yeah, we do. We do a quarterly in person and, um, we, uh, what do call it? We basically do it all over the country. So we'll have, we basically do like an Airbnb have like 20 guys come in and we do a two and a half day in person event as part of our clients. So it's for clients only right now. I'd like to be able to do, I really want to be able to do more of that, uh, event stuff, but like one off, like in Atlanta or something like that and have, you know, a hundred guys come in and I do a day long session. Go from there.

Rob Pene (28:32.812)

Okay, okay.

Mark (28:45.632)

I know that that's part of my actual, like that is my gifting is to do those in-person things because my real anointing is healing. That is what I, for whatever reason, God has given me the ability to help men heal. And it's like, how do you sell a program like that? You don't. You give them practical tools. You give them practical things that make sense to the brain. But in the midst of that, you bring healing, kind of like a mindset coach, you know, they don't really sell mindset. They sell business growth, you know? So I'm helping guys and literally,

Rob Pene (28:54.798)

you

Mark (29:15.224)

become better communicators. We're really good at teaching those things, better leaders. We're really good at teaching the practical things, but I would say that the strain across all of Empowered Man is we help men heal. We call ourselves a fathering business. That means that we help men be fathered for the first time ever in their lives.

Rob Pene (29:34.092)

Ooh, dude, yeah, you should do your circuit, go speak to men's groups and stuff, I think there's a huge gap in men's ministry that we're so focused on being this masculine doer, doer, doer, that we forget deeper, deeper, deeper things, and there's cracks in character. Now we can perform in public and go in parking and all that stuff and go, don't come in here. But the deeper thing is just not there. So I think you should.

at some point just start traveling and speaking, man, because it's, yeah, I can sense it.

Mark (30:08.549)

I would, that would be great. I would love to add that to the repertoire. Trust me. I sit in my home office. I'm like, just let me out, let me out, let me out.

Rob Pene (30:13.229)

Yeah.

Yeah, do you have bandwidth? Like do you have bandwidth to go on a Sunday or a Tuesday and fly out and speak for like an hour to men's groups? Okay. All right.

Mark (30:24.942)

Yeah, for sure. mean, it's just obviously boundaries have to be around it. You know, we have five, let's see, technically six of our kids are still at home. One's about to go to another one's about to go to college because we have two adult children. So it's like, we're getting to that stage where more and more are going out. but her, like I told my wife when we met, I was like, you know, at about five years or so, I'm going to be speaking publicly again, I'm going to be traveling, I'm going to be doing those things. So if you're going to be with me, know that that is going to be part of.

Rob Pene (30:37.869)

Nice.

Mark (30:54.702)

the life I live. And we started to do that with our events. And she loves it. It's amazing. She loves to travel with me. And we're such a, we don't position it as a duo because I don't want to be one of these marriage ministry people. That's not what I do. I am a men's personal development coach who helps men heal from the trauma they've been through. And she comes alongside and we do incredible work together.

Rob Pene (31:09.602)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Mark (31:21.944)

And really even into the prophetic and stuff, even though that's not never been her background, that's what we really operate into. it's not a thus sayeth the Lord, it's a this is what we see in you. God sees something in you that needs to be released and we're gonna release that over you right now. That's the real power right there,

Rob Pene (31:41.036)

man, this is great. This is great. This is great. Well, I'm going to be praying man about introducing you to some people and maybe try to open some doors and stuff. I like doing that kind of stuff.

Mark (31:50.052)

That'd be awesome.

Well, what we want to do, just to share the vision real quick, is we want to create boots on the ground. Not to replace men's groups, but to really create a, like we have something so authentic in our community. We have probably 80 % of the guys that come to our stuff are church, like are Christians. And, and, but they come to us because the local church can't help them because they go to these men's groups and they're told, pray for your wife, you know, wash her feet, you know, and all that's great.

Rob Pene (32:10.338)

Yeah, yeah.

Mark (32:22.276)

from a spiritual standpoint, but there's no practicality to any of it whatsoever. And pastors, God bless them, they are not equipped to help men go through this, especially because they're thinking about both the wife and the husband. You know, they're there for the whole flock, not just the man. And so where we come in, and this is why therapists will send people our way, counselors and some people our way, because they see the impact it has on these men's lives and the transformation that they get out of it because of the men they're becoming because of this group.

Rob Pene (32:22.531)

Yeah.

Mark (32:50.434)

because of this community. So we want to do boots on the ground. call it where we have, you know, groups in Atlanta, groups in LA groups in all these places to build part of that fight. What I call the five dimensional man council. That is kind of the next evolution of what we're doing. Empowered man is building these, this council of five dimensional men who are being impactful in all five dimensions of life and growing in all of that. That's true fatherhood. That's true sonship. That's true leadership. That's Rolling of all the prophetic ministry into one.

Rob Pene (33:17.41)

Dude, that's crazy. Have you started? Do you have like a pilot or a beta group that's kind of running?

Mark (33:23.882)

Not yet. That's on the table. There's just a lot of other things that I've been having to work on to fix from a marketing standpoint. You know, was holes there that I had to fix. Getting some of those things away. Be rehiring sales team, all that. I basically cut everything. I cut sales. I cut everybody out that was just crowding the business out because we grew too fast. We were $100,000 a month in six months. You know, was like, was so much. And for years we ran like boom, boom, boom, like just years.

millions of dollars, we've been very successful. And I was like, we got to a point where I'm like, this is unsustainable the way we're trying to do this, rolling through salespeople, et cetera. There wasn't good consi- the marketing was good, but it wasn't good enough and there needed to be some fixes. And so that's what we've been working on is fixing those things. And once some of those things are fixed, then I can back to, you know, get out of the sales role again and have other people do the, do that stuff for me and go from there.

Rob Pene (34:15.596)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, well, I'm a fan, man. Just seeing your story and watching from a distance, you know, I can see God's hand in it. And now just hearing it, it's crazy. So count me in, dude. Whatever I could do to support and help and be a boots on the ground or whatever. I'll take your curriculum and run it, test it with our little boots here. I have a passion for men. Yeah, definitely. Especially young men. I've got a 14-year-old son. So I want him to grow up better than I was.

Mark (34:33.358)

Go. Yeah.

Rob Pene (34:45.155)

so yeah, I'm off for it, dude. where can people find empowered man and you?

Mark (34:51.428)

All over. You can find me on YouTube. think the YouTube is at Empowered Man, I believe is the thing. But EmpoweredMan.co is our website link. I'm on Facebook. We got a Facebook group, free EmpoweredMan.co slash group. They can go to that. There's like 22,000 guys in there. So there's plenty of support, plenty of stuff happening. Podcast on Apple, Spotify, whatever it's Empowered AF is the podcast. So you can find it everywhere.

Rob Pene (35:16.237)

Yeah.

Yeah, cool. Cool. Cool. All right, man. I appreciate you. logistically with Riverside, this has to show 100 % upload before we can actually leave. I'm going to stop the recording to let it upload. And then we can leave after it says 100 % because right now it's 92. And if I don't do it, if we don't get it 100%, then it's going to, it'll be disjointed on that stuff. So with that being said, go to empoweredman.co if you're a dude.

Mark (35:22.295)

Thank you.

Mark (35:30.936)

Okay, yeah.

Rob Pene (35:47.662)

and talk to your men's group leader, see if you can get more to, if you want them to zoom in, fly in, whatever. Yeah, you need to get a lot more stronger guys, right? And stop being a victim and all that stuff and start taking ownership. Cause there's a lot at stake for men on this planet and advancing the kingdom. So yeah, this is the deal to follow, man. All right.

Mark (35:54.306)

Yeah, that'd be awesome.

Mark (36:09.892)

Thank you.