From Intern to CEO: How Colleen Joyce Built Lawyer.com Into a Legal Powerhouse

In this episode, Rob sits down with Colleen Joyce, CEO of Lawyer.com, to talk about how she grew a premium domain into a thriving legal marketplace with 150 employees — all without venture capital. Colleen shares her journey from finding an internship in the newspaper classifieds to running a company that connects thousands of consumers with lawyers every month. Along the way, they dig into scrappy marketing, the privacy challenges unique to legal services, vibe coding with her 6-year-old daughter, and why treating every day like a startup keeps the team hungry.

Guest Bio

Colleen Joyce is the CEO of Lawyer.com, a legal services marketplace that helps consumers find attorneys while offering law firms directory listings and call intake services. She started as an intern at the parent company World.com and built Lawyer.com from the ground up beginning in 2012. Colleen also publishes The Fast Five, a weekly newsletter on LinkedIn covering business, culture, and inspiration.

Key Topics Covered

• The origin of Lawyer.com — How parent company World.com acquired class-A domains like lawyer.com, doctor.com, and others in the 1990s through its mail.com vanity email service
• Building a business on a premium domain — Going from a blank landing page and directory in 2012 to a 150-person operation with organic growth and no outside funding
• The double-sided marketplace model — Free consumer-facing lawyer search on one side, paid directory listings and call center services for law firms on the other
• Marketing in a privacy-sensitive industry — Why legal services don't lend themselves to social media reviews and how Lawyer.com leans into B2B brand culture instead
• AI as a tool, not a replacement — How the team uses AI across tech, call intake, and internal operations to move faster
• Vibe coding for fun — Using Lovable to build spelling test games with her daughter and running "Vibe Fridays" with the team
• Super Bowl ad strategy — Why a single big ad spend isn't always worth it and what brands like Coinbase and Dunkin' get right
• Startup mentality at scale — Open office, no red tape, fast failure, and a culture where anyone can pitch ideas regardless of tenure
• Colleen's path from intern to CEO — Starting with classifieds, writing for Popstar.com, learning to hire and manage for the first time, and earning the CEO title
• Leadership philosophy — Leading by example, embracing failure, and keeping fun as a core value

Notable Quotes

• "If you're not using AI, forget about it. You're going to be replaced by people who are using AI."
• "Every single day we treat this place as a startup."
• "It's okay to fail. Do it quick and don't do it again."
• "The minute work becomes not fun, I have a conversation with myself."

Connect with Colleen Joyce

• Website: Lawyer.com
• Instagram: @ColleenJoyce1
• LinkedIn: Colleen Joyce — subscribe to The Fast Five weekly newsletter

Transcript

Rob Pene (00:01.012)
All right, Talofa Lava, everyone for listening. This is Rob here. I'm here with Colleen Joyce, Colleen Joyce and very, very cool.com that I'm very curious about. I'm sure everybody's curious about that, but I think what's gonna help kickstart the conversation will be fun. Is this question. If you were to reflect back on the last six to 12 months,

Colleen Joyce (00:14.783)
Thank

Colleen Joyce (00:23.551)
Okay.

Colleen Joyce (00:28.907)
Ooh, okay.

Rob Pene (00:29.932)
Yeah, and then you turn that into a Netflix movie. What would the movie be about?

Colleen Joyce (00:37.165)
It would be about chaos in a good and bad way. So it would be things have been fast moving, spires galore, great growth galore, right? It's just, all over the map. That's what I'm saying. Controlled fun chaos.

Rob Pene (00:38.678)
Rob Pene (00:47.063)
Hmm.

Rob Pene (00:57.326)
Ooh, okay, I like that. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be actually a series. Yeah, a Hulu series. Wow. Now, is that pertaining to lawyer.com or that including personal life and then just everything else or is this?

Colleen Joyce (01:00.225)
And I'm sure there's gonna be a sequel.

Yeah, totally. Totally.

Colleen Joyce (01:16.235)
No, I think that's just work. I kind of have a very blended line between work and home, which is great for me. That's how it works. And in the last six months, we put on a huge conference at work that was just phenomenal. had 100 plus people in Las Vegas, three days, just high impact. We've been growing end of the year, and then we've been traveling. it's just, it's kind of, it's everything.

Everything in one. Like you said, a good series.

Rob Pene (01:48.236)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so did you guys own the dot com or or did you buy it from somebody else?

Colleen Joyce (01:55.265)
Yes. No. So we've had the domain, our parent company, world.com. Yes, I said world.com. Started a company back in the nineties called mail.com. And during that time they acquired a lot of class A domains because they were providing vanity emails. So you could go and get an email at lawyer.com at doctor.com at Rome, at Paris, at London, you name it. could. And I had hooked up with the company.

Rob Pene (02:02.638)
Wow!

Rob Pene (02:21.378)
Wow.

Colleen Joyce (02:24.429)
the two founders in 2007-ish and started working at the domain level for the parent company. you know, we were fortunate enough, they had registered their domain, I think in 96, which many people don't, you know, the 1990s or the 1900s, think that's what the young people said. So yeah, we've had lawyer.com since the 1900s.

Rob Pene (02:38.382)
home.

Rob Pene (02:42.872)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Pene (02:50.016)
Yeah, man, that's legendary. Wow. And are you a lawyer or not?

Colleen Joyce (02:54.391)
Right?

Colleen Joyce (03:01.469)
No. So I'm not actually, we don't have any attorneys here on staff. First and foremost, we're here to help consumers. We have this amazing brand that we were able to grow into and we're helping thousands of consumers every month find a lawyer. It's not easy to find a lawyer. I've had to use a lawyer myself and yes, I know lawyers and yes, I have access, but sometimes I don't really want to advertise.

Rob Pene (03:06.583)
Yeah, let's see.

Rob Pene (03:22.99)
You

Colleen Joyce (03:31.244)
As a lot of people, don't want to just say, listen, I need this. mean, they'd rather handle it privately. And that's really a challenge with our industry is that it is very private. so when you're marketing and advertising, it's not like you're selling. But light, right? It's not that easy because people aren't openly leaving reviews. Like that was the best lawyer I got off of my DUI, right? Because then they go Google, should I hire Colleen Joyce?

Rob Pene (03:55.17)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (04:00.748)
Right.

Colleen Joyce (04:02.021)
she got a DUI? Maybe not, right? So it is a very challenging space because of that whole privacy layer, but it's just truly amazing that we're able to help connect people in that.

Rob Pene (04:04.098)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (04:14.358)
Now is it only, is it consumer lawyers or any lawyers?

Colleen Joyce (04:18.125)
I mean, because of the brand, people say, hey, I need a lawyer. Where do I go? We just start by typing lawyer.com. So we get a lot of consumer law. So that's personal injury, divorce, criminal, family law, a lawyer that a typical person like myself or yourself would need in your lifetime. That's our ideal client. That's who we can help.

Rob Pene (04:29.698)
Okay.

Rob Pene (04:43.488)
Yeah, yeah. Now, I imagine you get a ton of organic traffic and organic leads. Now, is the business model a lead generation distributor or yeah, what's the business?

Colleen Joyce (04:49.398)
Okay.

Colleen Joyce (04:56.397)
Sure. So we run a double-sided market. The first is the consumer. It's a free service. Anyone can come to Lawyer.com and we will help you find a lawyer, right? 24-7, any day, any week, whatever it may be. Now on the revenue generating side, we go to law firms and we say, hey, listen, do you want to be listed in the directory? Because we are trying to match people and it's the best way to get in front of the consumer.

So that is one of our products. Another one of our products is that we realized that we have the ability to help lawyers answer the phones and convert those calls into clients. with zero experience or knowledge, we started a call center. And I ran it by myself for a while on my cell phone. And I learned that I needed to hire somebody that knew what was happening.

Rob Pene (05:41.506)
Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (05:52.418)
But we're very much like from the ground up here, right? There's no job too big, too small. And I strongly feel if you're going to build a product that's a good product, you've got to experience it yourself. I can't help you if I don't understand what you're going through. And that's a big kind of focus that we've always put on product development.

Rob Pene (06:13.742)
AI, how does AI get roped into your software?

Colleen Joyce (06:19.499)
Yeah. So writing on the wall, right? Three or four years ago, it was like, okay, it's coming. Are you ready for it? And there was no time to even answer that question. was just, yep. Okay, good. We're ready. How does AI fit in? Obviously the team is using it. If you're not using AI, well, forget about it. You're going to be replaced by people who are using AI, right? And then yes, we use it within our technology. And yes, we use it in our, our call intake service as well.

Rob Pene (06:25.912)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (06:40.974)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Pene (06:48.014)
Hmm.

Colleen Joyce (06:48.799)
It's a tool to help make things better. It's not replacing anybody. It's a tool and we are using that tool to our advantage and it works.

Rob Pene (07:00.792)
Did you guys start off as like a blog and then leads came in and people were asking questions or did you literally like, no, we know that we've got this gold mine and let's set up a landing page and yeah, how does it start?

Colleen Joyce (07:14.829)
Yeah, so it's interesting. It's a little bit of everything. So we had a landing page, right? And I was like, all right, let's see what's going to happen. We put up a directory thinking that, hey, the internet, nobody's paying to be listed. Not in 2011, 2012, they weren't. That's just not the behavior then. All of a sudden, consumers were calling us. And then lawyers were calling us. And I was sitting in a room thinking, what?

wow, I think we could actually take one and connect it to the other. So the beauty of our business is that there's been so much organic growth. And that's, think that's what helped us get to where we are because there's the need and the demand and we're able to fulfill that.

Rob Pene (08:02.232)
So this didn't start as like, a venture backed startup and we're gonna fundraise and it just, you guys had a domain and let's do something.

Colleen Joyce (08:06.477)
you

Colleen Joyce (08:12.597)
Yeah, no, again, our parent company has a lot of great domains. What is the business model and who's going to be the leader behind that? Right. And I was learning and I have two phenomenal mentors that walked me through how to get to where I am. and I started Laurier.com and I was doing accounts and I was doing sales. And then I realized, okay, I need to hire someone. I never hired anyone before. Right.

I need to manage someone. I've never managed anyone before. So I, throughout growing the whole business, was also able to grow within my career and take on different responsibilities until I was handed the CEO title like two or three years ago.

Rob Pene (08:54.328)
So you actually launched Lawyer.com. Wow. Yeah. Now, has there been other domains that you've launched since? Or this is like...

Colleen Joyce (08:57.803)
Hmm. My first baby.

Colleen Joyce (09:06.217)
No, I'm a big, you know, we're big, big believers in focus. If we want something to succeed, you've got to focus on it. Now, our parent company has a lot of different ventures, but I focus on lawyer.com. I want to make it the best that it can be. Since day one, it was a household name without having anything to it. So I've had the responsibility of living up to our brand, really.

Rob Pene (09:27.811)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (09:36.14)
Yeah. Are you? How involved are you guys with social media?

Colleen Joyce (09:41.036)
Yeah, so it's such a funny topic. think we were talking about this earlier. It's where does legal fit in social media? Because I'm not running to Instagram and making a reel about how I got divorced, right? People don't do that. They don't. They are going, or that I'm...

Rob Pene (09:49.582)
Mmm.

Colleen Joyce (10:03.713)
got into a car accident, right? Maybe that's a little different. So being able to play in social media is very interesting in the legal space. I think the best way to do it and what we lean into is more showing kind of the culture of the brand. And we use that on the B2B side of things. So we are targeting the law firms. Hey, listen, you want to be part of our community? This is what the community looks like.

Rob Pene (10:18.446)
Mmm!

Rob Pene (10:24.854)
Okay.

Rob Pene (10:30.797)
Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (10:32.821)
Now, of course, obviously we do a lot of advertising to the consumers, but we use social media really to target the law firms. But it is challenging because of that privacy layer.

Rob Pene (10:38.68)
Right.

Rob Pene (10:47.052)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, just the name itself. Obviously with the Super Bowl yesterday, I could totally see a lawyer.com commercial in an upcoming Super Bowl.

Colleen Joyce (10:57.557)
You know what, if I can get the Coinbase marketing team.

Rob Pene (11:02.016)
dude! man!

Colleen Joyce (11:04.237)
I was on the edge of my chair being like, please be a blockbuster revival, right? The blue and the yellow. And then when it was like Coinbase, I'm like, they did it again. Again, because they had the QR code a couple of years ago. Do you remember that one? Like literally, oh my God. So they had the QR code bouncing kind of like Tetris. And you know how like the goal was to hit the corner? And it was like so close.

Rob Pene (11:08.994)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (11:14.072)
Pointless.

Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Pene (11:29.096)
okay.

Colleen Joyce (11:34.437)
it's genius. It's absolutely they have, I love great marketing. I think you've got to tip your hat when you see it. And man, I think that they nailed it.

Rob Pene (11:45.312)
yeah, that was my number one too. Absolutely. It was brilliant.

Colleen Joyce (11:48.166)
loved it. Everyone's just so tryhardy like that. It's just simple.

Rob Pene (11:54.06)
Yeah. So if you were to do, guess it'd be tough to brainstorm for a lawyer.com type of commercial. Would you go first and storyboard internally? Or would you just go and look for like, the people that's written and already scripted and hired a previous ad agency?

Colleen Joyce (12:19.199)
Uh-uh, we got the best damn team right here. You know what, know, doors are locked, we're figuring it out. Now the challenge with like a Super Bowl commercial, because we, you know, we've seen in different markets, law firms doing Super Bowl commercials, and it's great for brand building once you have an established brand.

Rob Pene (12:21.964)
Yeah, okay, okay.

Rob Pene (12:36.942)
Mmm.

Colleen Joyce (12:38.793)
In three months from now, is the normal person who's not like the marketing person going to remember the Coinbase commercial? Probably not. Was that $6 million worth it? Did it get enough eyeballs? That's always the challenge when you do these big marketing and budget spends is it takes the consumer by our takes about 18 times to be familiar enough with the brand to buy. Well, if you're just doing a one ad on the Super Bowl, yeah, you're getting

your eyeballs, but they're going to forget about you. And that's the challenge. Unless you're Dunkin' Donuts. you know, they've got history that they're building on year after year. And that commercial was pretty good, too.

Rob Pene (13:11.074)
Why, but one time.

Rob Pene (13:19.99)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was clever. Yeah, I think that was getting all the oldies. Are you guys using Vibe, the streaming?

Colleen Joyce (13:30.337)
Like vibe coding or vibe?

Rob Pene (13:32.268)
Well, we can talk about live coding, but there's vibe.co. That's where you can actually upload your videos and it'll, it'll, dude, it's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can stream. well it'll, it'll run your ad on streaming channels, rogue ESPN. Like it's direct consumer. 100%.

Colleen Joyce (13:40.578)
values.

Okay, bye, code, just wrote it down.

Colleen Joyce (13:51.404)
Okay, nice.

Colleen Joyce (13:55.886)
Yeah. Love that. Okay. Well, thank you. I'm going to 100 % be doing that tonight. Yep. Yep. But we played around with that as well. The same thing, unless you've got something like monsters. We actually did for fun. did a billboard in Times Square over the summer and that was fun, right? Same thing. We went in, I was like, oh, picture. And then did anybody in Times Square actually remember that?

Rob Pene (13:58.806)
Yeah. Yep. And blip, you know blip, right? The digital billboard. Okay, yeah.

Rob Pene (14:14.466)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Take a picture, yeah.

Rob Pene (14:24.63)
Yeah

Colleen Joyce (14:25.389)
But we thought it was hysterical and we got a kick out.

Rob Pene (14:27.362)
Yeah, yeah, good, good, good memories. Yeah. homework moments for the business.

Colleen Joyce (14:30.645)
Right, exactly. Right, exactly, it's true. It's fodder, it's content. It then shows the lawyers, hey, they're playing ball. We should be paying attention to them. They're a player.

Rob Pene (14:41.098)
Yup.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish you could, you could, whatchamacallit, place your ads on, like suits, I love suits. Yeah, if you can run ads there.

Colleen Joyce (14:53.527)
So cool. like on suit, like clothing suits.

Rob Pene (15:00.16)
the lawyer show suits. Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (15:02.207)
suits. know. That'd be kind of cool to target it. I know. That is a good one. That is a good show.

Rob Pene (15:07.048)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Podcasts. So you're on podcasts. You're going doing the rounds. Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (15:13.645)
I'm on podcast

Colleen Joyce (15:19.296)
It's obviously the best new channel for advertising, for brand awareness, really. It gets our name out there. I love it because I get to meet really cool people like you who either spark ideas. Obviously now I'm going to go check out Vibe.co and we'll be live by tomorrow, I'm sure. But it's like, it goes back to that whole community element. We together learn so much more.

Rob Pene (15:35.702)
Yeah. Yeah. yeah.

Colleen Joyce (15:46.701)
And that helps grow us individually. It helps grow our business. So I love being out here talking to people for that exact reason.

Rob Pene (15:54.742)
Yeah. So how are you guys vibe coding some cool stuff to give away or to make things more efficient internally?

Colleen Joyce (16:02.153)
Yeah. All right. So we're using lovable. Obviously it was, sure everybody else does. the caveat is that I am not a tech person. I'm dangerous enough to have a conversation. And then when someone talks back to me, I'm like, I gotta get out of this. So we always do like fun challenges, like vibe Fridays, right? Like what can we be using? Our tech team is using a lot of different AIs to play around.

Rob Pene (16:16.591)
Yeah. Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (16:31.905)
The business team obviously uses a lot. Fun story, so I have a six-year-old daughter and she loves lovable. So what we do every week is she has spelling tests every week in first grade, which I couldn't handle that. But we vibe code, whether it's hangman, memory match, like we're making games so that it's a little bit more fun. So when she comes home on Monday, every Monday she's like,

Rob Pene (16:48.27)
Ha!

Rob Pene (16:53.55)
Really?

Colleen Joyce (16:59.479)
Can we vibe code the spelling test? So that's how I use it. It's fun, right? But unless you're like a true techie, I'm not sure how I'm using it in my everyday, except for fun, silly things.

Rob Pene (17:01.867)
Yeah

Rob Pene (17:17.206)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's fun. That's fun. That's cool. As your CEO role, do you feel like you were born for it or do you feel like you kind of matured into it? Because I imagine CEOs are, they're just something about them that allows them to do what they do, but everybody's different.

Colleen Joyce (17:35.438)
Yeah, it's an interesting question. It's funny. I have my mom is an entrepreneur. She's owned a lot of businesses. She's just a bad ass bitch kind of lady, right? So I always looked up to her and that's kind of, I was like, I want to be that. want to achieve that. I didn't really understand what that was, but.

Rob Pene (17:58.53)
Hmm.

Colleen Joyce (18:00.758)
I always, feel comfortable around people. I feel comfortable speaking my mind. I feel comfortable leading the team. So I, you know, I think it's kind of a combo of both. I will say my days as a cheerleader really are paying off right now because I'm like, I rah rah the guys and the ladies a lot. And I do think that that helps. So maybe that gets a little bit of credit.

Rob Pene (18:17.556)
Hmm

Rob Pene (18:26.7)
Yeah, yeah. So what's your story? Like, what's your background? How did you end up with the parent company?

Colleen Joyce (18:32.331)
Yeah, so I graduated school, a college. I was a nanny for four adorable children under the age of 10. And my mom one day was like, all right, what are you going to do with your life? And I'm like, well, I don't know. I'm having fun. Don't film this for me. And nobody's going to understand this reference. But I opened the newspaper and I found the classifieds.

Rob Pene (18:59.458)
Yes! Yes!

Colleen Joyce (19:02.68)
And world.com was looking for an intern. So I started my whole career at our parent company. I started as an intern working two days a week. I learned the domain business. I, had another, um, you know, we have tons of domains, but one of them was called popstar.com. So I said, well, I love pop culture. Wouldn't that be fun if I just, and I like writing. I don't know if I'm good or not, but I like it.

Rob Pene (19:05.292)
Mmmmm!

Rob Pene (19:21.038)
Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (19:27.789)
And we just kind of, started writing on popstar.com and that kind of took off. But what we realized was, yeah, you can get a hundred thousand, 50,000 views by lunchtime via Google news, but you're not going to make any, maybe the article made like $2, right? Because the pay to play and that was just, it just wasn't attractive enough. So that's when we put the directory up at lawyer.com. So I have been with our parent company.

Rob Pene (19:40.31)
Mmm. Mmm!

Rob Pene (19:46.038)
Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (19:58.094)
for longer than I'm going to admit.

Rob Pene (20:00.91)
Now, at any moment, did the entrepreneurial kind of idea come to you like, maybe I can go buy a domain myself and then launch my own thing or.

Colleen Joyce (20:12.501)
I could, absolutely. I just was raised in such an environment here where it was like there was no desire or need to look anywhere else or to try to do it on my own because I had that anonymity. Wow, I can't say that word.

Rob Pene (20:30.796)
You

Colleen Joyce (20:32.621)
That's fun. I had that flexibility to really do what I could and I was able to flex as much as I wanted to. you know, those are the kinds of environments that you want to be around where you come in and you say, great, I'm going to take everything, right? You that support in order to do that. and I think that's, you know, a big

Rob Pene (20:49.763)
EEEE

Colleen Joyce (21:00.855)
part of the culture here is that that's how I was raised and I hope that other people kind of have that same opportunity.

Rob Pene (21:07.596)
Yeah, how important is that support to growth?

Colleen Joyce (21:12.013)
totally. we, again, we live in a world here where we live by fast failure, right? If we try something and you fail, okay, great. What did you learn from that? And I think that's one of the best lessons I ever learned was it's okay to fail. Do it quick and don't do it again. Those are kind of, those are the caveats to that. And...

Rob Pene (21:19.404)
Yeah, yeah.

Rob Pene (21:32.462)
Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (21:36.513)
I think that a lot of our success is based on that. I mean, I'm sure you see that as well. You have to try things and you can't be afraid to do that. And I think that crosses in life too, right? Just get out there. What's the worst that's gonna happen? Guardrails have that sentence, know, with reason, within the law.

Rob Pene (21:50.732)
Yeah, I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. How big is the team?

Colleen Joyce (22:01.389)
We've got a hundred, a hundred and fifty people on the team.

Rob Pene (22:06.534)
Justforlawyer.com. Oh my gosh. How old is Lawyer? So I guess it's 96, right?

Colleen Joyce (22:07.095)
Mm-hmm.

Colleen Joyce (22:13.517)
Yeah, so we started building out the domain in 2012. So about 14.

Rob Pene (22:16.942)
OK, OK, OK, so that's not bad. And then you hired your first hire in 2012 or a little later. OK, that's pretty rough to both.

Colleen Joyce (22:22.039)
Hmm.

And we've a lot. Yeah, no, we've had great growth. You know, we've had our ups and downs too, right? Just like any business. I don't think it's fair for me to just talk about all the good because there's been a lot of not fun things, right? There's been a lot of plateaus, but I think that it's important as you grow your business to be able to have those conversations because somebody could be experiencing that and want to say, hell, give up.

Rob Pene (22:43.448)
Okay.

Colleen Joyce (22:53.697)
But I'm here to say don't because it ebbs and it flows. And at the end of the day, be positive. It should all work out. It should all work out.

Rob Pene (23:01.994)
Yeah, it should. It should. Now, as a CEO, what do you feel like is the most important role for you in that position?

Colleen Joyce (23:12.233)
I'm very much a, want people to, like, I want to lead by example. I want to set the standard so that people see that. And whether that's me making sure that the kitchen is cleaned and stocked with snacks or whatever, right? Or that's me answering consumer calls or sitting in leadership meetings. I think it's very, very important that I lead by example. And I hope

That's what I do. In my mind, I do. But that's, know, and every day I come in wanting the best. Do I make mistakes? Hell yeah, I make a ton. But I care and I try. And I think that's the best way to push forward.

Rob Pene (23:57.816)
What's the future hold for lawyer.com?

Colleen Joyce (24:02.677)
I know, it's so fun, right? It's endless. People are crazy. That's the thing. It's, okay, fine. Yeah, AI is coming, right? How does that impact us? Well, listen, we've been through a lot of waves. We will ride this wave out. Are we gonna try to capitalize on it? Heck yeah, we are. We'd be a fool not to. But at the end of the day, we have a phenomenal brand. We have a great team. We're here to stay. We're not going anywhere.

Rob Pene (24:03.886)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Pene (24:26.221)
Mm-hmm.

Colleen Joyce (24:31.745)
We want to help consumers during their most difficult time. We want to help lawyers grow their firm, right? Because that's what we're doing. We're here. We're growing every day. If we can take what we know and showcase that to the lawyers, great. That's the dream. So vision is we keep growing. We keep having fun. And we keep trying. I think that's the best thing we can do.

Rob Pene (24:57.792)
Yeah. Are there any competitors? I know there's like Avvo and there's right.

Colleen Joyce (25:03.317)
Yeah, there's tons and lawyers call and they say, why should I pay you when I should pay AVO or Kleinloft? Right, of course. And my answer is great, go pay them, right? Because, well, first of all, you never know when a consumer is gonna find you. So take every opportunity that you can to be listed absolutely everywhere. And then when I talk to like our partners in the space and they're like, well, well, aren't we competitors?

Rob Pene (25:09.9)
Yes, in the lab.

Rob Pene (25:24.173)
Yeah. Okay.

Colleen Joyce (25:30.645)
Okay, fine. But that doesn't mean we can't learn from each other, right? We're all here to grow and do better. So why can't we collaborate in a respectful manner and help each other? Because maybe my product doesn't fit for this client. And that happens, right? Like we're not for everybody as much as I'd like to think otherwise, right? So you may be a better fit everywhere else.

Rob Pene (25:50.945)
and me.

Colleen Joyce (25:54.038)
And that's okay, because I'm confident enough that our product is strong. But if you want to try somewhere else, listen, I'll give you the names. Go try them. I'll make you an inch.

Rob Pene (26:02.818)
Yeah. What makes you guys different?

Colleen Joyce (26:08.129)
we're small. so our competitors are all very large corporations, big backings. We're small and scrappy. yes, we've been around for 14 years, but every single day we treat this place as a startup. and I think that that is a real different factor. There is no red tape. If you want something done, it's done. If you've been here for a day or 10 years, it doesn't matter. The floor is yours. What's your idea?

How are you gonna help us grow?

Rob Pene (26:39.042)
Wow. Wow. That's empowering, but frightening too. Yeah. Goodness.

Colleen Joyce (26:43.691)
Yeah.

And you know, they're good ideas because sometimes when we're so in the business, you don't see the most obvious thing. love like I'm dangerous because like you tell me about your business and I'll give you like, I'll be like, you should do this, this, this and this. Like duh, obviously they've thought of it, but maybe you're so in it that you miss maybe some factors that could help. And, and, and that's one kind of a fresh eye is very important.

Rob Pene (26:54.242)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (27:01.292)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Pene (27:15.798)
Yeah. Boy, this is exciting, man. Yeah, good for you. So yeah, yeah. It seems like that's your culture. And yeah, as part of your core values is fun part of it.

Colleen Joyce (27:18.945)
Right?

It should be fun.

Colleen Joyce (27:26.603)
It is. Very much so. Yep. It is. It's help, right? Help is number one. We're here to help people. And I love that. Number two is fun, right? Life is so hard. When you come to work, work should be a place that's fun, that's happy, where you can collaborate, where you can grow. The minute that it's not that, you gotta go, right? Because...

Rob Pene (27:42.274)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (27:52.46)
Mm-hmm.

Colleen Joyce (27:54.766)
Again, you want to come at, spend so much time at work, right? And I think that's a blessing that I have, I blinders on that. I don't have work and home. I just have my life and this is my life. And I'm very happy with how it blends together. And the minute it becomes not fun, well, then I have a conversation with myself. And I think that everybody should kind of look at things that way. And maybe that's a better way of kind of handling things. I don't know.

Rob Pene (28:22.422)
Yeah. And you guys have everybody in house? Or is it remote?

Colleen Joyce (28:28.137)
So we're very much a fan of in-person, because not for punishment, because you learn so much, right? And especially as AI is moving so fast. In a day, we can have a new idea. In a day, we can have something live. And if we had to, not that remote work is bad, and we have our call reps, they're remote in the US.

Rob Pene (28:32.108)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (28:41.293)
Yeah.

Rob Pene (28:55.126)
Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (28:55.593)
Our core team, our marketing, our tech, our business management, we're here every day. And I look over, we have an open office. Nobody has private offices. just this giant, I'll send you a picture, this giant thing. Someone pops over and is like, Hey, what do you think of this? I'm like, okay, great. Let's grab Trish. All right, Trish, what do you think? Can we make this happen? Okay, good, go. And then, and then Ryan's listening and he's like, I think we could do this. And, and

Rob Pene (29:15.575)
man.

Colleen Joyce (29:23.243)
I think that adds to the excitement, the fun, that startup mentality and grind. Not to say that there's anything with remote. It's just not our style.

Rob Pene (29:35.062)
Yeah, yeah. Good for you. Yeah, good for you. I'm sure there's been companies that they want to buy you guys out and, know, yeah. Yeah, but it sounds like you're taking it to the moon. So that's encouraging.

Colleen Joyce (29:38.303)
Thank you.

Colleen Joyce (29:43.757)
How we doing?

Colleen Joyce (29:49.517)
To the moon, that's what we say, I love that.

Rob Pene (29:51.342)
Yeah, yeah, Obviously, they can find you at lor.com. But if people wanted to, you know, find more about you, his little Instagram or an email they can go to.

Colleen Joyce (30:02.093)
Totally. So my Instagram, it's ColleenJoyce1. ColleenJoyce, if you're listening, call me. I'll buy ColleenJoyce. We can swap.

Rob Pene (30:11.458)
Yeah. Yeah.

Colleen Joyce (30:13.577)
Somebody can help me out. also, one of my passions is every week I write this really fun newsletter that we publish on LinkedIn called the Fast Five. We scroll through kind of like what's going on in the world and we compile it into one newsletter every single week. So find me on Instagram or come on LinkedIn, Colleen Joyce on LinkedIn. You can find me there and it's a lot of great content. This week we're talking about Lindsey Vonn, cause I think she is.

Rob Pene (30:40.642)
Yeah. man.

Colleen Joyce (30:43.115)
I mean, but she's got that grit, that determination. Nothing was gonna stop her. And I feel like she doesn't need a gold, she got it, just by showing up. So we talk about fun, inspirational things like that. Yeah. Instagram and LinkedIn.

Rob Pene (30:49.602)
Nope, you got there.

Rob Pene (30:58.626)
Yeah, that's exciting. So Instagram and LinkedIn. Yeah, I think I subscribe to your newsletter on LinkedIn too. So let's look at it. Well, I appreciate you. This has been fun. Yeah, it's been helpful. I learned a lot too. So I'll execute some of these things and implement fun in my daily life. Yeah. Yeah. All righty. Cool. Thanks.

Colleen Joyce (31:04.694)
Love it.

Well, thank you so much, Rob. That was so fun.

Thank

Yes, we more fun in this world.

Colleen Joyce (31:22.094)
Thank you so much, it was a pleasure.